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An interview with Occupy Wall Street

posted by Tim Nafziger on 10/23/11 at 11:42 PM

This evening, October 23rd, on the Amtrak back from New York, I met three men who were heading home from the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protest in New York. Eli Fender, 23, was from Seattle and was at the OWS camp for two weeks. About halfway through the interview, we were joined by Robert Smith, 20, and Riley O'Neil, 20, both originally from Rogers Park in Chicago (small world). They had visited the camp over the weekend. Here's the edited version of the interview my wife Charletta and I did with them. For the full version, see: http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2011/10/24/occupy-wall-street-interview-with-eli-robert-and-riley/

Occupy Wall Street portraits

Charletta: What are some of the tools that are important at Occupy Wall Street?

Eli: There's the people's microphone, which a lot of people know about. There's also a working group. There's the facilitation working group who guides the general assembly. We've got this democracy, and you worry about where power starts welling up. So I went to the facilitation group meeting.

Charletta: What most concerns you in how power shows up in the movement, and how do you avoid abuses of power?

Eli: A big thing about the movement is that we don't have leaders, and we don't have an agenda. You look at the civil rights movement, and [it] ended because Martin Luther King got shot. They had no successor. That's what having a leader can do to you. So if you have a movement where everyone is a leader, then there's no way your cause can be threatened by a face.

Charletta: But isn't there some agenda that draws you there?

Eli: This movement really did start wanting to protest Wall Street. So the greater agenda is ... first inspiring people. You've got to get the 99 percent. The thing about true democracy is that you've got to be engaged and informed. So even people who don't agree are coming down to find out, and they get sucked in. 

The second thing that is on the greater agenda is the distribution of wealth. And you can't just have the government and private sector in bed together. There is a need for a private, legal person for corporations. But the fact that they have so much power and can buy thousands and thousands of votes and it's no longer democracy ...

Right now the OWS movement has more support than any government worldwide. We don't want to be a campaign sticker. We don't want to be absorbed into a party. Look at the Tea Party and the way the Republican party absorbed them ...

Tim: How has your experience changed the way you view the world? 

Eli: I have been upset by the Democratic-Republican dichotomy. I've wondered in the age of internet, how come people don't really try to do democracy seriously? In the General Assembly, I got a sense of how to make it happen. Most importantly, it sparked my imagination. I'm thinking, How could this be done better? It wasn't about being trained in one way of thinking, but about how to think. I'm becoming open.

Neither of my parents voted in the last election ... There's so much apathy in the world, not that people don't want it to be different, but they feel ineffectual. I want people to be empowered. You could physically stand up as one and make a difference. Being out there and changing hearts, I feel that for myself.

Tim: How will that sense of community affect you beyond this? How does it interact with individualistic culture?

Eli: [Eli spent some time living in Japan]. Collectivist culture isn't perfect either. Shame is a hugely powerful emotion in collectivist Japan. It's still got a lot of problems there. You don't want to stir the pot, going against the government is harder in a collectivist culture. 

I think Occupy Wall Street [is a ] hybrid, having our individual voices and still being together. Anybody can make a proposal that could forever change the community, but if it doesn't represent the community, it's not going to happen.

At this point in the interview, Robert and Riley joined us. The two of them were in high school together and traveled from Chicago to New York for the weekend. 

Tim: What brought you to Occupy Wall Street? What inspired you?

Riley: I'm a business student at college in St. Louis, and this directly affects me. I missed five classes and have the worst academic week of my life coming up. But everything I learned and benefitted from this week was so worth it. I hope this movement really does change things.

Robert: I've known about corruption, and if you know that, it's your duty to do something about it. I dropped out of college after one year because I wasn't sure my degree would be worth me going to school. I want to go to school, but is it going to be worth it? If this is the revolution, then I have to be there.

Tim: Have you been at a protest before? 

Robert: This is my first protest ever. I never thought I'd see something this size. It's awesome. I have a lot of friends back home who would have loved to make it. I'm going to Occupy Chicago when I get back.

Riley: There is nothing at Occupy Wall Street that isn't being used. We just came over Friday--first time ever in NY. People gave us a spot for food. You felt like a hotel, like you're comfortable. You're in the middle of NYC and you're safer than ever. 

Robert: The environment was awesome. Everyone across the world there, and with the same message. It's a very comfortable environment.

Riley: They were willing to share with you, anything.

Tim: What will you two take with you as you go home?

Riley: I was just on the phone, and it's so hard to explain to someone what it's like. You really have to see it yourself, do your own research. 

Robert: I'm definitely going out to Occupy Chicago, and I'm going to bring friends. I have 1000 pictures on my camera, videos. I don't know what else I could do but preach. 

Eli: You have to share a lot. And one person isn't enough most of the time. Don't force anything on anyone. 

Tim: What about those who are far from a place with an occupy camp? How can they connect?

Eli: Go to the website for minutes, and see how it's moving day to day. Get info from the source. Check out http://www.occupycafe.org. Without any social media, it wouldn't be so big, but you have to experience it directly. 

Charletta: Tell us about the economics on the ground?
 
Riley (to Eli): Where's the food coming from?

Robert: When I woke up this morning, I had a box of pizza in my face.

Eli: All you really need is a sleeping bag and a shelter.

Riley: and open ears.

Eli: Everything is donation-based. There's someone who even collects food donations for those with gluten allergy. A gift economy, plus people are being thoughtful. And you don't just give to the carnivores. I do my part by eating pepperoni! 

Eli: NYC, the whole world is watching it. The park is a tiny little park, about three train cars wide and seven train cars long with 500 + people sleeping there ...

Robert: You have to get involved. They had a $1000 / week budget for the library. There's one guy who made a block to the proposal and at first I thought [he] seemed like a jerk. But once he explained it and talked it through, I realized he had a point. He proposed that they make proposals of what they need and what they want. 

It's clear that its more important to have everyone's voice and everyone involved than to move forward. 

Eli: The highest moral authority is process. The only time you're really wrong is if you violate process. 

Riley: Everyone is very patient. 

Eli: Process becomes really, really important if you want true democracy. Because if you get off track, you'll never get anything done. 

Eli: Go down and find out yourself! Go anywhere and tell anyone you can.

Nafziger_tim_2_thumbnail Tim Nafziger is a activist, writer, organizer and web developer. He lives in the Rogers Park neighborhood of Chicago with his wife Charletta where he attends Living Water Community Church. He is the administrator for the Young Anabaptist Radicals blog and serves as Outreach Coordinator for Christian Peacemaker Teams. For more about his life, read his first blog post.